Tuesday, July 17, 2012

Leonora's Perfect Pants, My Eye.

Sorry about the silence here, friends. I've been busy struggling with Leonora and her idea of a perfect pants pattern. At the suggestion of many of my readers, I decided to go ahead and try out this vintage pants pattern (can it really be called vintage if it's from the 80s?) in order to make the envelope illustration cat work for its keep, so to speak. I had some lovely soft suiting that I figured would be perfect for testing out the pattern (because doesn't everyone use expensive suiting to make muslins with?); I hoped that I would also end up with some wearable shorts out of the deal.

My inspiration was something along the lines of these "formal shorts," but without edging into these 80s horrors. Well, after wrestling with darts and crotch curves and non-existent waistband patterns and under-butt bagginess, I think I would've been happy to end up with the latter. Right now, I just want to crumple up these shorts and start a San Francisco UFO pile.

This was my traced pants pattern. The extra-long dart actually goes on the front pattern piece...I was just a doofus when I drew it in. I've never seen such a pointy back crotch area on a pants pattern. It was kind of difficult to sew, honestly.

Leonora's "perfect" pants pattern is intended to yield couturier pants, and maybe it's just that she's assuming a lot more sewing experience than I have, or maybe this is just a bad pattern, but I experienced quite a bit of frustration during the construction process. First of all, the pattern doesn't include a waistband (I sketchily drafted a curved one), nor does it have darts marked (you're supposed to just pin and figure it out for yourself). The directions are confusing and poorly illustrated (or maybe I'm just really bad at reading them?). In fact, I'm still not exactly sure what took 22 pages to say in the instruction book. But enough griping -- let's talk about the actual garment.

I'm cringing at the thought of putting this picture up, but I think it's important to show the sewing fails, too.

Ugh. This back. Some of the bagginess can be alleviated depending on
my posture, but good pants shouldn't only look good in one position, right?
I will start by saying that these shorts are extremely comfortable. The suiting is deliciously soft and silky, and there's plenty of ease in the cut. That ease, though, is also what causes the excessive bagginess in the back and the weird poofing in front, right above the dip where my thigh meets my pelvis. I tried to take in some of that excess fabric by extending the front dart like crazy, but there's only so much I can do before I start getting smile lines. The fly front was actually not very difficult to figure out, thanks to this helpful tutorial from Coats and Clark. However, since it was my first time ever doing one, I placed my zipper way too far over and had to make a huge fly front. That might also contribute to the weird hang of the front. I feel like my waistband could be tighter, but maybe that's what belt loops (and a belt) are for...I also think my idea of ease in a waistband might be skewed; what's a normal number of fingers to be able to insert in between your body and the waistband?

Since I was having so many issues with the fit, I didn't really bother finishing my seams until the end. As a result, there are some quite awkward intersections where I couldn't get the seam binding to reach, but they should hold up in the wash, I hope. Another problem with treating these as a muslin, and then suddenly wanting to be able to wear them for real, is that I didn't bother interfacing the waistband at all. It'll do, but I miss the structure and crispness. Also, it didn't occur to me to put pockets in, but now I miss them.

The side seams are mostly straight, at least.
Phew. That's a long list of issues with these poor shorts. I'm sure that most of these issues are actually my fault, not poor maligned Leonora's, but it's so much more fun to blame her! I guess this is a lesson in you-get-out-what-you-put-in: I was so slapdash with my dart pinning, waistband drafting, etc., that I'm pretty sure that calling these my slapdash shorts is an insult to Trena, whose work is actually very well done. Anyway, I'm still hoping to be able to wear these shorts out into the world, though. I mean, the fit isn't perfect by any means, but it's still within the realm of acceptable, right? Especially if I wear a shirt over it to cover the waistband? At least it's no worse than RTW shorts I might pick up at H&M or something. Actually, they're probably better because they're longer.

Which brings me to my final dilemma -- how short should I make these? I tried bobby-pinning up one leg to what seemed an appropriate compromise between not-a-grandma and not-exposing-my-cellulite. I figure I could always turn up the bottom into a cuff if I want to go for a tights+shorts look like Tasia's Thurlows, but this length is still okay for me if I want to forgo tights underneath.

What do you think of the whole formal shorts look? Shorts with tights? Or is that kind of ridiculous because it defeats the purpose of wearing shorts in the first place? And are these shorts worth finishing, or are they forever doomed?

42 comments:

  1. Maybe it was just the build up you gave them, but when I scrolled to the picture I thought 'those look fine!'
    and you say they are really comfy? I say wear them! personally I always prefer long shorts, so I can't really help there.
    also, I always think the tights and shorts look is pretty cute on others (e.g., Tasia), but somehow the combo feels weird on me.
    I think I will steer clear of "SELF-FIT" patterns - I'm not that ambitious (yet)!

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    1. I don't think I was feeling that ambitious when I started this pattern, but then I discovered that everything about it was "fit yourself!" I'm glad they don't look that bad to other people; I think I've just been staring at them for too long!

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  2. Pants are always tricky to fit unless you draft a pattern completely from scratch and to your specific measurements. (Maybe someday I'll actually do that for myself, but I am lazy.)

    I think the length you pinned your shorts is pretty good - although it's a little hard to judge without a full-length photo. =) And I don't think they are horrible! (My big pet peeve is when people wear pants that pull in the crotch and cause diagonal wrinkles all the way down the backs of the legs making them look like they have an awful wedgy, hehe.)

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    1. After this pants adventure, I'm ready to throw pants patterns out the window and try for one of StephC's custom blocks! I still have a couple more I'm tempted to try...

      I definitely tried not to have the super tight drag lines, but then again, that was never really a danger with this pattern.

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  3. I actually think they don't look that bad, but quite good. I agree with what's said above...

    As for the combo shorts and tights, if you want to wear it, wear it! You can wear skirt and tights, why not shorts and tights?!

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    1. Thanks for the reassurances, Johanna! I think I just lost all perspective since it was late and I'd been working on them for five days...

      I think my issue with shorts and tights is I don't know how short they need to be before tights don't look (as) ridiculous.

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  4. I agree with everybody else, I'm impressed with how good they look, especially considering this is your first try! Maybe you should really treat these as a muslin and work out the fit issues without expecting to wear them at the end of the process. Then you won't be annoyed by the finishing techniques and lack of pockets - because you will do that differently on your 'real' pants the next go-round. :) Anyhow, don't be discouraged!

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    1. I think you're right...I need to not expect to be able to wear my muslins. It's hard to let go of the "but I worked so hard and I can't even wear it for real!" feelings. Thanks for the encouragement!

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  5. They really don't look that bad! But then I suppose it's different if you've had an idea in your head of how they're supposed to look / fit and they turn out a bit different. I think the length depends on how you're going to wear them. Shorter if you're planning on wearing tights, longer if not. And IMO shorts+tights+boots = win!

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    1. Heh...I am definitely a victim of "but they looked so good in my imagination" syndrome! I decided to keep them at the pinned length, but I don't know if I can pull off tights with that length.

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  6. Ah pants, they are such a pain in the *** right? They are worn so often you think they must be easier to make then they are.....frustrating! For a first attempt you did very well:) I am not at all familiar with Leanora's pattern, but....in looking at your pics I am thinking you probably don't need the front dart at all because your tummy is so nice and flat. You mentioned having to make the dart longer which means you need to fold out that dart all the way down the front pant leg. If after doing this you may still need to have that front dart but it will be quite small then in width and length. As for the waistband length..1" of ease is the standard.

    My daughter( who is your age) wears shorts with tights and it looks great! Try your shorts on with tights and shoes to know for sure what length you prefer.

    Hope this helps, and keep up the great work. Thanks for sharing your results with us, it does inspire.

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    1. Hmmm, thanks for the dart ideas. It never occurred to me to think about what purpose the dart actually had there in front. I think my amount of waistband ease depends on whether I just had dinner recently...the woes of fitting a pattern at night! I'm glad even my fitting issues can be inspiring; I appreciate all your help greatly!

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  7. i think they look pretty good - i wouldn't look at you and think they didn't fit. i like shorts with tights but i think you have to go quite short with them (shorter than your pinned up leg) - similar to tasia's thurlows.

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    1. Hmm, I was afraid they would need to be shorter to do the tights thing. Looks like I'm going to have to forgo it, as I just hemmed them to the pinned length!

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  8. Hi,
    I am Immi Meyer from germany and I am also fighting hard to get my perfect pair of pants. Yours are not that bad, I think! It is unbelievable how much trouble one can get with the attempt to fit some pants perfectly, but I finally got an idea. You might have a look here: http://immi-made-clothes.blogspot.de/2012/07/das-ziel-ist-die-perfekte-hose-die.html
    Good luck for your project! :*

    Immi

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    1. Oh Immi, those pants look amazing after your alterations! I'm going to have to study your diagrams more carefully when I try pants again. Thanks for sharing!

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  9. Like the others, I think these look perfectly good, especially for a first take on a pattern. I have no comment on the length---I prefer my shorts as short as I can possibly get away with, but obviously that's not everyone's cup of tea. ;) And I've never mastered shorts that weren't cut-off jeans, so I have no clue about styling, although I do love the shorts + tights + boots look on other people (there was a LOT of it going on in the UK when I was there a few years back...)

    That does sound like a weird pattern, though. And especially awkward to do yourself.

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    1. Hah! I thought you might say something like that about the length! But then if my legs went on for miles, I might feel the same! I realized I don't have tights here with me, though, so it looks like I'll have to wait to try out that look.

      Having to fit the pattern to myself all by myself probably contributed some to the slapdashedness of my darts and side seam adjustments. It got to be that I would pinch and try to guesstimate how far down my thumb I needed to take out, then I would run to the sewing machine and try to stitch it before I forgot.

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  10. These actually look pretty decent to me, for all your criticisms! I have a feeling that the weird pointed back crotch piece is what's contributing to that weirdness in the back -- though I'd have to see something in person and play with it to know for sure. Given that they're a suiting, I'd say go for a cuff -- the fit and the fabric are begging for them!

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    1. I just examined pointy bit and the crotch area a bit more, and while it's not contributing to the pulling, it is weirdly bulky and unnecessary.

      Unfortunately, I realized that if I wanted to cuff these, I would've had to adjust the leg cut accordingly -- as they are the cuff won't fold up nicely, so no go this time :(

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    2. Delurking here. Will the cuff not fold up nicely because it's too tight around the pant leg? Because you could always (if you have big enough leftover scraps) cut a slightly larger separate cuff piece and sew it onto the bottom of the pant. (And back it with a light intefacing for a little crispness.) Does that make any sense?

      Also, I agree with everyone. These look way better to me than they do to you. But, I was having some epic pants battles myself all last week, so I know how you feel. And I do this for a damn living! Fitting oneself is always the hardest, I think.

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    3. Kathryn, yes, it's the tightness of the lower part of the pant leg since it's slightly tapered. I actually did what you described on a previous pair of shorts and it worked pretty well; unfortunately I was really scraping these shorts out of the yardage that I had. Oh well! Next time!

      Thanks for reassuring me that even professionals have issues with this!

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  11. I was totally expecting disaster, but I'm with the others, I think they look really good!! My feeling on shorts is they should be short - not riding up or showing butt cheek, but short nonetheless LOL. You could pull off a shorter length but if you're more likely to wear them a bit longer, I think you could probably leave them at the pinned up length and add a cuff :)

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    1. Thanks for reassuring me that most of the horribleness is in my head! I like the look of shorter shorts when I'm standing up, but as soon as I sit down I freak out a little bit :) So it looks like these will stay this length, and unfortunately a cuff will have to wait for next time, as I couldn't make them work with this pair...

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  12. These aren't looking too bad, thought I totally understand your point of pants not only looking good when standing in a certain posture. For me, I like to cuff my shorts - it takes away from the distraction of how wide my thighs are, or might seem, while my white pasty leg is on display. The cuff is a distraction unto itself, and I like that. I agree with Caroline, I've never seen a pointed back crotch and I would think that would be causing the majority of the back problems. Other than that, I think the front fit is pretty spot on. I like to put two fingers in the waistband - that gives me extra room for breathing, especially when the heat is making everything stick to my body.

    Don't give up - I think you are making excellent progress and I'm excited to see the final version!

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    1. Thanks for the encouragement, Meg! I am so with you on shorts needing a distraction piece! Cuffs are good for that, aren't they?

      The pointed bit actually doesn't seem to be affecting the fit in the back, at least not from my examination, but more the excess width of the back leg piece. I'm thinking that since it's in the back and I don't see it, I'm going to ignore it for now! These shorts are excellent for a going-to-a-buffet outfit, as I seem to have more than two fingers' worth of room. I think I could stuff extra rolls from a buffet down the front, as long as it was before the buffet started...

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  13. these aren't awful at all! i'm sure with the right top you could get away with wearing them out. given the suiting material i would definitely cuff them. i just finished making a pair of thurlow shorts, and even though it's a pricy pattern, it's a worthwhile investment and might just spare you the frustrations you encountered!

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    1. It looks like cuffs aren't going to work out, but I agree with you that the material could definitely have used them! I just checked out your Thurlows, and they look fantastic! I'll have to keep them in mind next time there's a Sewaholic sale -- I'm with you on the $1.99 pattern sales!

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  14. I think these look pretty decent, and goodness knows I've paid good money for much worse! I think with a little tweaking, these might actually be the perfect pants. :-) Hopefully someone more skilled than I will know what changes need to be made.

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    1. You are so kind to say that! I think I will keep looking for a good pants pattern, but it's nice to know these are passable!

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  15. These aren't bad at all. The side looks like it fits you pretty well. Yes shorts with tights, why not?

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    1. The side is my favorite view :) Maybe I'll just sidle up to people from now on! I think my concern with the tights business is the shortness of the shorts that seems to be the norm in that look.

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  16. I think you're being to hard on yourself, these shorts look pretty good! Definitely wear them out, they would look good with and without tights. Love the blog, keep sewing.

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    1. Thanks! I think when I wrote this post it was too late and I'd been working on these shorts for too long. I feel better about them now, although the tights might still be an iffy proposition.

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  17. Look hot!!! I like the above the knee length on u :)

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  18. Yup 20-25 years + is vintage XD. Also your pants look fine. By which I mean fine.

    On a separate note, can you install disqus please so I can have a conversation with you without losing my eyes and mind to recaptcha? Disqus handles spam blocking for you (it uses Akismet, the same algorithm that's built into Wordpress) and enables cross platform commenting while keeping tabs on comments, responses, pings and trackbacks. This means people from wordpress, typepad, livejournal, overblog etc can keep track of responses without having to get a Google ID.

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    1. Thanks for the clarification on what classifies as vintage...it's a little scary that my childhood is now officially vintage!

      I tried installing disqus, but wasn't pleased with the way it imported my previous comments (i.e. not as the replies/threads they originally came in). That said, I can appreciate how difficult the captcha thing can be, so I opted to remove that. I don't *think* I have too many spammers coming through, so let's see how that is. Hopefully that makes things a little easier for you!

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  19. Good job! These look SO close to perfect. I completely agree with Caroline9L. The problem is with the crotch. Perhaps it's the length of the pointy part but I'm thinking it's more the extreme scooped shape. Perhaps lower the angle of the very end of it because it seems that the crotch depth would be too short there. Here are a few resources that I've collected to help me make pants: http://www.craftstylish.com/item/1526/copy-curves-from-fave-pants and this one shows exactly what I think the extreme curve of that pointy part is doing to your fit (see last three photos) http://jsterndesigns.cinematicweddingstory.com/?p=2113 Good luck!

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    1. Thanks so much! These links are supremely helpful! I am totally pinning them for my next pair of pants!

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  20. You are a brave women! I'm Leonora's daughter and I never made her pants. Too many measurements and pattern pieces. It was fun knowing her pattern is still out there being used to make great pants. Candace

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  21. Leonora is my Mom. I'm impressed that you attempted her pattern! I am terrified of it! I am an experienced seamstress, but never attempted her pattern. Our Mom just passed on 3/3/14. She was 93 and sewed just about up to the end! She was passionate about fashion and sewing. She traveled around the US teaching her pants pattern until about 1988. She started the Auburn chapter of the American Sewing Guild. You can google her obit, Leonora Christman. Here is to much more sewing projects, hopefully not as challenging as her pattern! :) I think they look great!! Best, Julie

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Thank you for taking the time to tell me your thoughts! I appreciate reading them and I try to reply to most, if not all, comments, especially when they are questions. I ask that you keep your comments polite, and if you're a spammer, don't bother because your comment will just be deleted! Also, if you're commenting on a post that's more than two weeks old, it will be moderated.